11/06/2008

Prop 8 Approved: Now What?

This just came in: California voters approved Proposition 8, adding a provision in the state Constitution that "only marriage between a man & a woman is valid/recognized in California", citing uproar among the gay community. I, too, am disappointed to read of this after Obama's victory in the 2008 US Presidential Elections.

Shame...
How sad it is that the very people who voted for Prop 8 also voted for Mr. Obama. Hypocrisy, much? How can one vote for democracy & equality in rights when he/she voted to remove the rights of gays to be legally married? Shame. As mentioned in another article: this is a classic case of a majority using its powers in numbers to discriminate against a minority group.

Shouldn't the marriage between 2 people, regardless of
sexual orientation, be protected too?
Legal chaos will begin as around 18000 couples were married in the state; the legality of these unions now hang in limbo. Is it not a fundamental right for an individual to be happy? Is it wrong to be gay? It saddens me that even in California such close-mindedness & discrimination exists.

Support love
What is marriage then? A legal union between a man & a woman?

How shallow. Don't stuff religion into it, not everyone abides by the same religion & there are religions that accept homosexuality like Buddhism ("be a lamp unto yourself") & paganism (yes it's a religion). I'd like to include an interesting comment: "I myself will tend my sheep and have them lie down, declares the Sovereign Lord. I will search for the lost and bring back the strays. I will bind up the injured and strengthen the weak, but the sleek and the strong I will destroy." - religion may hate gays, but God wouldn't.

A marriage, in my opinion, is an institution of love, commitment & trust between 2 individuals (straight, gay etc) who want to live together & cherish each other. How ironic that even California is more conservative than Europe.

I clearly oppose Prop 8 yet there is nothing I can do about it. I simply hope that with the new American era, people will learn to accept other individuals with different orientations; they are no different from you & me. We have no right to withdraw other people's entitlement to the same happiness that they deserve.

Everyone deserves the right to be happy
Feel free to comment.

28 comments:

aMMerZ said...

Truly to say, i'm not ready to accept the Gay @ lesbian marriage BUT don't u feel weird when u see man holding other man hands & said "hey, this is my sole-partner & we're getting married soon"..~Confused @ am i gay?..haha~

Rowan said...

I don't feel weird at all. They are people too, it's not like what they do will hurt us. Straight people can be bad too. I feel that marriage is an important concept & everyone deserves a chance.

espree said...

Funny how the state California managed to pull of this one despite both Mr Barack Obama and his running mate Mr Joe Biden are against the idea.
~Total Hypocrisy there!
Well actually the voters in California passed the Prop 8 by a narrow margin.52% for Prop 8.
~But its Still Hypocrisy Ahah!

And I read somewhere that the states of Florida & Arizona are heading for similar Prop 8 Elections too..
huhu

Albrecht said...

http://news-panther.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/11/081104-homosexual-beetles_2.html

yes people, many male animals are Gay too...

Everyone has their own agenda with Gay marriage. Let's face the facts, they are minorities and it's a uphill struggle to defend homo's rights. Even a number their own parents won't share the same vision as their own homo children.

Rowan said...

@Espree: Well the same people who voted for Obama doesn't necessarily have to support homosexuality. Still, it's a shame.

@Al: That's true. Sad too :( Whatever happened to being loved because of who you are, not your sexual orientation?

Rwi Hau said...

i think what californians didnt want was to redefine the marriage term. a majority of them support gay rights and they dun discriminate them for sth so stupid like this. its juz that when it comes to marriage, they are a li'l conservative. mind u, ppl cannot be A COMPLETE LIBERAL FASCIST at all times. try and ask urself!!

Rowan said...

That's hypocrisy. So you are fine with your gay pal having relations but when he/she wants to take it further & get married, you don't support that? How does that work?

Rwi Hau said...

as i said, thats what the majority of californians wanted. well if u wanna talk bout hypocrisy, let us ask ourselves that. lets say u were gay, wud u OPENLY out urself in front of ur parents and ur friends? if u cudnt, then ur a hypocrite too. i mean u dun wanna believe that ur gay and isnt that the most hypocritical thing to do? but if u cud out urselves, then we'll talk.

there are certain thgs that ppl wud be conservative bout. im ok palling around with gays or lesbians, its juz that when thats what the majority wanted and the ppl have voiced their views, what more can u say bout it? u wanna trample over democracy? r u telling me VOTING is UNDEMOCRATIC? what is not then? hypocrisy or not, it dwells in everyone of us. u might not be hypocritical in this case, but one day someone might find u hypocritical on some issues!!

Rowan said...

What do you mean by "openly out" myself? If I were gay & I loved my partner to bits & she me, I would be proud to be married to her. Why should I be ashamed if I have something strong & loving with her? I just feel it's odd that most of the people who voted for Prop 8 most likely voted for Obama. I wonder what these voters would think when they see this link: http://www.obamas-hushed-vow.blogspot.com/

Rwi Hau said...

'OPENLY OUT' means ur gonna TELL PPL like ur parents and friends. saying is one thing, but executing it and taking action are the other thing. i think its easier said than done.

Rowan said...

I don't understand why you seem to imply that I will not walk the talk. Since I'm not in the situation to prove as such, this argument is irrelevant. The issue here is that gay people are being denied their rights to be married legally because of conservative thinking. I'm not against democracy but it's appalling that it could take on such a selfish hue.

Rwi Hau said...

i was merely explaining bout ur position as a virtuos equal rights advocate. irrelevant? i think not cuz i was asking you to put urself in other ppl's shoes. wud u out urself to ur parents and friends if u were gay? i was comparing this situation to being a hypocrite if u really cudnt afford to do that.

not all who voted for barack obama are completely liberal. no one is a complete liberal fascist. i have been reiterating this for so many times, ask urself if u can totally disregard everythg and go for what u want without thinking what consequences it wud get u into.

Rowan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rwi Hau said...

its juz that if i were gay, i really wudnt know how to deal with it..ur right. so those who voted for obama werent really thinking right were they? they were merely taking it out on bush and the gop werent they?

Rowan said...

If one is gay, he/she should not pretend that he/she isn't gay just to conform to society. In any case, here's someone's comment which I find pretty simple yet true: It's sad that you can be completely in love with each other, and because you are gay, you cannot get married when there are so many straight people wanting and getting divorces coz they were never really in love.

Rwi Hau said...

u and ur shocking truth. i wish u'd refrained from telling us that. lol. well, i really dunno what to say. but thats juz the way it is. do u know what religions allow same sex marriage?

Rowan said...

Not officially because the problem is people tend to twist the religion to suit their fears/misunderstandings. Like in Buddhism, it's stated nowhere that homosexuality is a bad thing. Buddhism condemns adultery, rape & unsafe sex; this applies to all relationships, straight or gay. This explains why many homosexuals turn to Buddhism because it focuses on how we would feel when the action is done to us, & how it would help us to achieve Nirvana. Thus, heterosexual & homosexual consensual sex is acceptable.

Rwi Hau said...

oh..hmmm. interesting one there. well my friend has been digging up quite alot of stuff bout buddhism. for instance, buddhism doesnt allow u to have many lovers and this includes getting a divorce and remarry. if u do so, ur bad karma awaits u. im not really sure bout this, but what do u think?

bout prop 8, if i cud vote, of corse i wud cast a no vote for prop 8. while same-sex marriage wudn't be weird for some ppl, it cud be weird for others. i guess we have to accept the truth that same-sex marriage needs time for acceptance and embrace for most of the ppl. lol

Rowan said...

You're right, stuff like divorce & being promiscuous isn't in the good books of Buddhism. Why? Because it shows lack of control of lust (sleeping around etc), & divorce isn't encouraged unless it would be better for both spouses. Extending that, a gay couple who truly love each other & do good to each other plus others will have better karma compared to a heterosexual couple who don't respect each other etc.

I get that you would vote the no-to-Prop 8 & you're right that it'll take time for people to accept the gay community. I just wish that change would come sooner.

casper_gotcha87 said...

marriage is a sacred bond between two people based on love, trust and respect (personal view)
as long as the marriage is based on these virtues, no one has the power to deny your rights!! NO ONE!!
shame.. they're using the very act of democracy itself (voting) to suppot an action which is against every bloody democratic principles!!
democracy is all about equal rights and denying that very right to a group of people just because they're minorities is just wrong.. WRONG!!
look.. there's a difference between being 2gthr and getting married coz marriage is legally accepted..
that's what these people want, acknowledgement!!
is that wrong??
quit being hypocrites and so close minded!! :(
give these people their rights back.. they deserve it!!

Daoz said...

well,very interesting i would say.never heard such a strong opinion.i dont reli know how 2 respond,personally i will certainly say no coz it totally against my religion.but as an open-minded individual,i will most likely gonna be on da go-gay side.marriage and sexual orientation are individual rights,should have no such thing like prop 8 to be existed at da 1st place.hv u ever thought dat gay couple feel da same way about str8 marriage,they are like same-sex marriage in their 'world' n vice-versa.if ever that make sense.

Rowan said...

Yeah Daoz, if you were gonna vote, would you consider about your peace of mind or of the happiness of so many people where their unions won't hurt you one bit? It's sad that there are people who WON'T think of these other people.

espree said...

Hmm agree with Daoz,I don't generally support same-sex marriages per se. Probably because its definitely against the principles of my religion. But for a liberal democratic nation like the US ,I understand that its decisions on the constitution does not necessarily 'embrace' the religion factor. Because the main feature of a nation that practices Liberal Democracy is to serve constitutional protections of individual rights. So I suppose this is what it’s about really, I think it's more of how the LGBT community wants their relationships to be acknowledged and their marriages to be recognized by the state. In the end its all about fairness & having equal rights because there's a HUGE legal difference between a married couple and a couple that cohabits(living together). What do you think Rowie?

Rowan said...

Well now the only option would be civil unions, but that makes marriage such a legal thing. Many of us were taught since we were young that marriage is a SPIRITUAL, EMOTIONAL thing; a civil unions seems to lack that perception. So why should we deny them that chance to be married? Only time will tell if Prop 8 will be a thing of a past or a constant reminder of the gap between the gays & the rest.

Daoz said...

r u gals having debate practices here 4 upcoming royals?hahaha.nway,both of u r going 2 UIAM rite,best of luck ok!

Rowan said...

Wahaha thanks Daoz...Although I think this time Royals will focus a lot on local issues, which I know nuts about!

If I Tell My Name... Would You Hate Me? said...

Hm.. I'm thinking about these Gay men are going to start a "family"..
They start adopting babies or kids..

Picture a friend having 2 fathers bringing him/her up, well for starters... I'm sure someone will give that friend a "peer pressure" thingy to whine about. That person with 2 fathers will be the 'topic' for the whole school to talk about when he/she just had the 1st step to education land.

Then picture a situation where a teacher ask a girl student to bring her father to school...

Teacher: Annie I want to meet you dad because you've been a naughty girl this year...

Annie: Um... which Dad... I got two of them.. they're gay married men...

Teacher: Haahahahah, ppor little girl, well I pity you... never mind then, I understand your situation... Have a nice day :p

Yes... Peer pressure and discrimination to the children.. Being victims of adoption from these Gay couples...

Don't get me wrong here, I'm just thinking for the future of humanity ladies and gentlemen, I don't think these Gay men are going to have one of them pregnant and giving birth in any way (Well... Lesbians can get pregnant... by means of sperm donors that is)

Let us go back to the main idea of getting married

1) We want to spend our lives with the one we love

2) We want to build a family and take care of that family built together... helping one another... creating a harmonious family.

I just want to say Gay couples won't have that harmonious family if we think about it... because in any normal and well being family there would be the Mom & Dad.

I never heard any individuals having Gay parents (2 Dads or 2 Moms) become someone successful like the president or the owner of Time Square... So I think I don't to elaborate this further on.

Ya, some people may accept Gay marriage but not all of them has the same vision as the "I support Gay marriage" people. That is why there's Prop 8: the majority of people around this planet does not support Gay marriage. They abhor these Gay rights and all... creating massive pressure to these Gays and yes... most probably their adopted children...

But, then again maybe it does bring something good? At least their adopting kids to give them a better life... in terms of food... shelter... maybe..

Rwi Hau said...

heyo 'if i tell my name...would you hate me? said...'!!!

on what you wrote, that's STEREOTYPE of course. people change over times. people evolve. people learn. i guess you never learn, do you? people who accept differences and diversity are people who learn. people who don't accept'em, i would say never learn. come on, where's your maturity of saying gay couples won't make harmonious families? like straight couples will? straight couples don't divorce each other? we hear a lot 'bout broken families in this supposedly straight people's world. don't tell me you haven't heard 'bout it? now where's the validity of saying gay couples won't make harmonious families? it's RIDICULOUS and appalling to have come from someone who's supposedly highly educated.